Highlight color banding issue DaVinci vs Adobe (DNG)

I’m currently going through a recent scan that I “overexposed” on purpose (i.e. I tried to find the brightest exposure that still lets me retrieve all the highlights during DNG developnment. I thought I’d hit the spot).

In Camera Raw (9.11) the frame(s) in question develop okay, but I can’t get the same result in DaVinci (18.6), which can only be due to “bad settings” on my part. I’m kindly asking for help properly setting up my timeline/workspace.

The area in question is the sky.
DaVinci is setup the same as described here - color-wise, anyway.

This is the frame in Adobe:

And this is the frame in DaVinci, not quite matching exposure, but it doesn’t really matter:

Sky vs Sky:

The only thing I’ve knowingly changed in DaVinci is exposure.
Here’s the frame in question.

Something I’ve discovered so far is this “riffle” in the green channel:
grafik

If I adjust tint (Raw tab) to kind of squish it a bit, the banding in the sky becomes significantly less.
grafik
grafik

I thought I could work with that, but this adjustment doesn’t seem to be possible with every occurence, because I need to be able to “reach” only the “riffle” zone with just the right adjustment, and that’s either not possible or I’m simply not experienced enough.

Are there any other settings in DaVinci I can adjust to get a better result? :face_with_monocle:

Not sure I understand what you are trying to accomplish. I downloaded the file and it shows a hard clip in Resolve that I do not see on your parade scope.
if you intentionally overexposed to whiteout the sky and you do not like the quantization, there are a few things you can try.
What I use below is an adjustment curve to flatten the values near the clipping, and also used the Soft Clip sliders (High, and High Soft) to blend the clipping with the unclipped sky.

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Thanks for looking at my file.
In the RAW tab, set the checkmark at Highlight Recovery. Things are ging to make more sense. :slight_smile:

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Hmmm. This thing is overexposed and without the correct whitebalance.

Here’s what DaVinci is reading without “Highlight Recovery”:


And here is the verdict of two other raw developers (red indicates overexposure, yellow underexposure):

Lastly, RawTherapee (without “Highlight reconstruction”):

– see the pattern?

Your blue channel has way too much amplitude. In other words, your whitebalance is not correct at all.

This fact bundled with your choice of “highlight recovery” leads to these funny results.

Recovery of highlights depends on assumptions what the highlights might look like - so in principle and in a way, it’s pure guesswork. Don’t rely on it.

I would suggest to do the following. With an empty film gate, adjust exposure time down so that the film gate is exposed as a middle grey. With that achieved, adjust your whitebalance used for capturing in such a way that all three color channels display equal amplitude. That is, the empty film gate looks really grey, without any color cast. This first step is for making sure that the whitebalance the raw developer will work with is ok.

After this first step, readjust the exposure time for actual scanning.

For this, insert a film frame which clearly shows some larger areas of the clear film base - that is, find a frame which has some larger burned-out areas. Adjust exposure time in such a way that these bright areas are not clipped. You should arrive at something like this here (remember, red areas are overexposed):

Note that only the sprocket hole is marked as overexposed - but nothing else in the film frame. That’s the exposure time setting for scanning we’re after.

If you follow that recipe, the results you obtain with DaVinci should improve. Again, you are overexposing the frame and the blue channel gain is way too much. As an additional hint, here’s the histogram of your image:


– see how the red and green channels are more or less aligned with each other, but the blue channel is stretched way too much to the right? And clearly, you are cutting off quite a few of the brighter pixel values in all three channels, loosing dynamic range…

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Thanks. I see the issue, and those are artifacts from the highlight recovery algorithm, which is certainly different in Resolve and Adobe.

I don’t think there is much you can do, but try the High Dynamic Range Color Wheels (light, highlight, specular).

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Thanks for the help.

The goal with overexposing was to reduce instances of clipping in dark areas. I thought I’d found out how far I could go while still being able to restore highlights, but I’d only used Camera Raw as a reference, which apparently automatically produces nice results in case of highlight clipping. I’m now using slightly shorter exposures to avoid having to rely on “Highlight Recovery”, but in return have a higher chance of black clipping again. Pick your poison, I guess… :slight_smile:

The suggestion to use a medium grey image for white balancing was also helpful. I might’ve been a bit on the bright side when balancing the light source. This is how my histogram looked at the time of the above capture. I thought I was fine:
plot

But this graph is based on a PNG of the same frame, not the actual DNG. When I opened the dng, channels were slightly off. The “blank” DNG now looks like this, which does indeed slightly improve the colors of the scan.

This is quite the journey. :smile:

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Well, that looks actually fine with respect to WB. So the cluprit is probably the clipping introduced by a too high exposure time. The WB from your raw is given by:

WB: [ 2.05719995 1. 2.96280003]

which features a rather large value for the blue channel. For comparision, my WB is usually somewhere around

WB: [ 2.8900001 1. 2.09990001]

What WB you need to select depends solely on your illumination source in case you whitebalance to the empty film gate. That approach is easy and works most of the time. It assumes however that your film is showing the colors in a correct way - that is, it should look ok when projected.

If however the film itself is faded or has other problems color-wise, you might want to adjust WB to the film itself. In that way the color cast introduced by the film is taken into account during the capturing. I know that some people actually are scanning with automatic whitebalance enabled - could be worth doing some experiments here with faded film.

I could not resist to try to see how far one could come with this capture by using only DaVinci. Here’s what I came up with in a quick node tree:

Here’s how I arrived at that result:

Remember, in the timeline’s node graph, there is a single CST transforming from timeline color space (DaVinci WG) to Rec.709:

Here’s the clip’s node graph:


For illustration purposes, I did every step in a separate node.

Let’s start with the raw input node:


Only important thing here: the Highlight Recovery is checked.

The first node in the clip’s graph (01) is working in linear space - I did not use it here. The 02 node is transforming the data from the raw into the timeline’s color space:

In node 03, basically the gain parameter is set:


In fact, I also adjusted slightly the Contrast and Gamma after setting the complete processing scheme - such iterative optimization will always be required.

Node 04 which I labeled LogColor is used to set the basic color adjustment. That is done mainly with the Shadow and Midtone settings.


In fact, looking at this node’s setting, I discover that I played here with Contrast, Shadows and Highlight settings as well. That happens when I forget to select the appropriate node before changing parameters. Not too much of a problem, due to the unique processing implemented in DaVinci.

Ok, the next node, 05, handles the saturation. Here, I opted not to use the overall saturation, but only the Color Boost:

In node 06 which I labeled “Shadow”, I actually try to give a final look intensity-wise to the image. In this case, pushing the Shadows, reducing the Highlights correspondingly. Also changing the Contrast a little bit:

Finally, node 07 is a special node handling the burned-out and colorwise not convincing “Sky”. Due to the highlights being clipped here, we get a rather noticable grainy boundary between some slightly magenta tinted part of the sky and a rather intense blueish part. Here’s what the image looks like without node 07:


That does not look convincing. I opted to handle this with a “Curves - Lum Vs Sat” node. With this tab and the “Qualifier” in the preview window selected, I clicked in the center of the sky - which gave me an idea where the offending image parts are located, histogram-wise.

Grabbing the central point of the selection and dragging it down to zero saturation solved for me the sky issue, with the result displayed above.

Given, that’s a quick hack. And if you observe closely, the roof of the car in the front of the frame is also affected by this secondary grading. One could use masks and other means to get a finer control here.

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Thanks for showing me this workflow. I feel like a caveman compared to the knowledge and experience that resides in these forums. :slight_smile: It’s a big difference between just following tutorials and actually understanding why something is done the way it is.

By now I’ve shortened the exposure time so that I at least don’t have to deal with blown out highlights in post (and hopefully won’t have too many instances of banding in dark areas). But the film that the above frame is from has a lot of discolored scenes. There are about ten minutes of footage either filmed through a plane window or through a train window, turning everything extra-blue. Do we already have a thread talking about restoring discolored footage? The search didn’t yield anything for me. I know the most basic color science, but there are many ways to apply changes in DaVinci, and most tutorials just give you “one trick” to work with, which seems great at first but doesn’t help much the moment you run into a color problem you can’t solve with said trick.

I guess there’s no quick way to get good at color grading, but if anyone has a source of knowledge that helped them most, please share. :slight_smile:

Edit adding a quick question: Does using a chain of nodes have any actual impact on the color grading process (i.e. is there some kind of “build-up”), or is it just done for making the changes easier to follow?

For DaVinci the answer is generally: a chain of nodes is preferable, as you can turn off and on selectively different nodes to see their impact. Also, some grading (for example contrast/gamma) should occur before others (saturation, in this example), because the former influences the later. In general, due to the processing implemented in DaVinci, it does not matter if you do all your processing in one node or ten.

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